tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-293100068373105830.post2348612010749384041..comments2024-03-29T03:02:00.140-07:00Comments on The Amateur Planner: North Station doesn't belong on the North-South Rail LinkArihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06058285362842737187noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-293100068373105830.post-76187360893048316222018-06-19T09:25:49.734-07:002018-06-19T09:25:49.734-07:00If you need a north-south station link, here is yo...If you need a north-south station link, here is your solution. Get on the Red Line at South Station and transfer one stop to Downtown Crossing and take the orange line to North Station.<br /><br />Or walk from South Station to Downtown Crossing and take the orange line. Or you could get off at Back Bay Station and take the orange line directly to N. Station.<br /><br />Until then, keep dreaming! Green line to Somerville/Medford should be a priority and how about the Blue Line to Lynn. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-293100068373105830.post-6142776913832355982018-03-02T00:31:04.809-08:002018-03-02T00:31:04.809-08:00We need North Station included because you need to...We need North Station included because you need to be able to go right from North Station Commuter rail and subways to Central station to South station... by not including North Station the point of the Central station is Moot.yaguara2003https://www.blogger.com/profile/00732654966171661951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-293100068373105830.post-39058643752197072862017-09-22T12:10:58.758-07:002017-09-22T12:10:58.758-07:00Traffic lights?!?!? Heck, MA doesn't even put ...Traffic lights?!?!? Heck, MA doesn't even put up street signs with the names of BOTH streets on every corner. It's just plain goofy.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15097955276603624060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-293100068373105830.post-40756315330419360982017-09-20T08:49:37.021-07:002017-09-20T08:49:37.021-07:00Yankee thrift overrides liberal sensibilities. It&...Yankee thrift overrides liberal sensibilities. It's an issue of culture and priorities, not money. Mass does not plan regionally (MAPC doesn't count); it has always been one of the most provincial states in the country, and the 351 fiefdoms are each loathe to take on the cost of infrastructure funding alone.I'm from the North Shore and moved away a decade ago, and every time I come back to visit, the ability to simply get from one place to another in a reasonable amount of time within the Greater Boston gets a little worse. Route 128, I-495, and all of the regional arterials are simply oversubscribed with private vehicles and there is no viable plan to fix this. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-293100068373105830.post-22028206293689651262017-09-17T05:24:12.868-07:002017-09-17T05:24:12.868-07:00This is OT...you don't (not unreasonably) have...This is OT...you don't (not unreasonably) have an email address listed, so I'm putting this here...<br /><br />What's up with MA not investing in infrastructure?<br /><br />I left here in 1991 (was a PhD student). Came back in 2013 and now live in a suburb N of the city, within 128. I'm just appalled at the lack of infrastructure. While the lack of investment in mass transit is really stupid, it's par for the course in the entire US. (Doesn't excuse it, of course.) But you've also got wealthy suburbs like Lexington with really, really high property values that refuse to put traffic lights at intersections that obviously need them. What the hell is up with that? MA is supposed to be "liberal," and as a card-carrying liberal one thing I can say "we" believe in is infrastructure.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-293100068373105830.post-63522968140058679962017-08-24T13:40:23.636-07:002017-08-24T13:40:23.636-07:00100% agreed that North-South shouldn't even be...100% agreed that North-South shouldn't even be considered as an option, unless "North" means a station with its north exit at Haymarket.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-293100068373105830.post-26403839782658351642017-08-23T09:08:50.449-07:002017-08-23T09:08:50.449-07:00I don't quite follow your proposal. Would all ...I don't quite follow your proposal. Would all the trains be through-running? It was my understanding that only some service would be, meaning that North Station, with its surface platforms, would still be valuable. <br /><br />I also think it's possible for some of the nothing near North Station to get filled in. <br /><br />If the Red-Blue Connector were built, would a second station be neccesarry at all?Matthew M. Robare https://www.blogger.com/profile/01238656296410351634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-293100068373105830.post-35702292122025921762017-08-23T09:06:51.043-07:002017-08-23T09:06:51.043-07:00@Alon, definitely a consideration, but how sure of...@Alon, definitely a consideration, but how sure of this are we? There were a lot of obstructions in building the Big Dig, but I would assume that most of them were in the top 30 or 40 or 50 feet; I can't imagine there's much in the clay further below (I also have no idea what the substrate is like that far down). There's some risk in building outside the envelope, but perhaps some reward, in the name of a more functional, less expensive project, especially since digging out vertical circulation seems like it would be easier in an open area like City Hall than along the Artery. Was the original 1990s-era plan to use TBMs or more of a mining technique?<br /><br />The other thing, regarding station dwell times, is that it may be just as important to design the stations and cars for minimal dwell times (passenger flow, mostly), and to look in to what it would take to have platforms on both sides of each track. The other question is how you get vertical circulation in to a station in the Aquarium-Haymarket area under the Central Artery (which would also work as a "central" station, while maintaining connections to the various subway lines). The point, I think, still stands: the stations on a Rail Link should either be North-Central-South, or Central-South, but not North-South as is often posited.Arihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06058285362842737187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-293100068373105830.post-30776386855369184092017-08-22T13:14:39.495-07:002017-08-22T13:14:39.495-07:00What's the current mode share of commuter rail...What's the current mode share of commuter rail use for the Garden right now? How does it compare to say MSG or Barclays? Don't want it to be the tail wagging the dog, but it's an interesting issue. Gabrielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12729627818999125312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-293100068373105830.post-4452879100799590832017-08-22T10:07:50.349-07:002017-08-22T10:07:50.349-07:00North Station isn't really downtown, though. S...North Station isn't really downtown, though. South Station and Aquarium/Central Station are, but North Station is too far north. This is why the mode share for commuter rail is higher on the south side than on the north side - better CBD access.Alonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267294744186811858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-293100068373105830.post-16336357175187202692017-08-22T06:38:45.947-07:002017-08-22T06:38:45.947-07:00The number of stations is going to be a tradeoff, ...The number of stations is going to be a tradeoff, because of capacity. The capacity of plain train line through a station is determined by the sum of the dwell time and platform reoccupation time, and the capacity of a line is determined by the lowest-capacity station. Platform reoccupation time can be assumed to be the same for all stations on a line like the NSRL, so the line capacity will be a linear function function of the maximum dwell time. Now, where does dwell time come from? Well, at crowded downtown stations, it's determined by how fast you can get people on and off the trains. If you have only one downtown station, you end up with basically the entire train getting off there and your dwell time is, say, 120 seconds. With two stations, you might have half the train getting on and off at each and the dwell time would 60 seconds. With three stations, assuming ridership is evenly distributed, you'd have a dwell of 40 seconds at each. Of course you can achieve similar gains in capacity by simply doubling (or tripling) the number of platforms at the single busy station, but in many cases it's better to have the platforms at different stations and serve more destinations than to build them all in the same place.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-293100068373105830.post-23393037445354863712017-08-22T06:00:30.646-07:002017-08-22T06:00:30.646-07:00I was going to post what Alon has pointed out. But...I was going to post what Alon has pointed out. But to add one more point, there is an advantage to pulling the underground North Station further south along the CA/T alignment, away from the water, and that's to make the station easier to build and access.<br /><br />A station along the CA/T alignment but shifted closer to Haymarket gets nearly all of the benefits as the Gov't Center location would but should be a lot easier to build than a Congress Street alignment for the NSRL.<br />Matthewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02027332620204904993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-293100068373105830.post-18403418023441023042017-08-22T03:48:21.987-07:002017-08-22T03:48:21.987-07:00Functionally, some trains will probably still stop...Functionally, some trains will probably still stop at the surface stations. Riders in those trains will need easy access to transfer to a thru running train. That's another reason for keeping North Station. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10272454522800597891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-293100068373105830.post-66979027004430632142017-08-21T20:35:33.324-07:002017-08-21T20:35:33.324-07:00I think the North Station site is to the south of ...I think the North Station site is to the south of North Station anyways essentially running from the southern end of the North Station stop on the green and orange lines to Haymarket Station so I think it will be shifted close enough to the south that it mostly achieves the goal mentioned in the post anyways as long as exits are provided from the southern end of the platform.D_Kerseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12256779625755517454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-293100068373105830.post-55387175074114188982017-08-21T15:21:51.059-07:002017-08-21T15:21:51.059-07:00Problems:
1. NSRL is supposed to be done with lar...Problems:<br /><br />1. NSRL is supposed to be done with large-diameter TBMs. This means the cost of building an additional station is low - it just needs vertical access.<br /><br />2. There's space for NSRL under the Big Dig. There's no space at Government Center. Tunneling to Government Center means redoing all the geological work that made the Big Dig such a pain. The soil under the Big Dig is clean dirt with no surprises, left in there for NSRL construction.Alonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267294744186811858noreply@blogger.com